What do you think of the idea of vegans exploiting animals? It's been on my mind lately, and it's really tough to think about/wrap my head around/come to conclusions about. Do you think (many) vegans unknowingly exploit animals via their shockingly graphic imagery, rhetoric, etc? If we did the same thing to other oppressed groups of sentient beings (assuming we didn't belong to said group), the same kind of things would probably not be appropriate. I feel like this question sounds stupid but I seriously do want to think about it.

You're right to bring up other forms of exploitation (social or political, rather than physical). While I wouldn't say these forms of exploitation amongst humans are easily classified as inappropriate, nevertheless the exploitation results in levels of superiority/inferiority - "look at this graphic image! we need to help these people because they can't help themselves!" The feelings of supremacy that result not only affect the supposed "do-gooders" but create an inferiority complex amongst the exploited victims. However I don't think animals develop those feelings of inferiority - but I'm not an animal psychologist. Humans certain possess feelings of supremacy, but that is present before exploitation occurs.

But I do agree that vegans can and do exploit animals to further their own cause. But the effects of that kind of exploitation may not have as deleterious consequences for animals as they do humans.

Yeah, I agree that it's not completely analogous, as animals do not seem to have developed the same types of feelings (from what we know), and we certainly do not know how to clearly communicate with them at this point, so it's just much harder to tell all around. Something about it just gets to me sometimes though. Like, if I wanted to raise awareness of violence and inequality against xyz population, I think xyz population wouldn't like it if I post triggering images of beheaded xyz's dripping blood from their wounds all over my facebook notes. But then if no one's there to feel the triggering effect, does that make it ok? I don't know. I can't tell if I'm just being crazy. Maybe I just worry that one day this'll come back to haunt us

Whoa, that last sentence is quite eery.

I think there are instances when posting graphic images aren't exploitation - it's reality. How do we discern whether campaigns of this nature stop being a "wake-up" call and start teetering into exploitation? That may help in drawing the line for when it's ok. But precisely because humans cannot adequately determine most animals' thoughts and feelings, we can never know if it is ok. For all we know, animals may be selfish egotistical beings who care nothing what humans do so long as they aren't physically harmed. I don't know.

Though to be honest, it seems more pressing an issue that many vegans "exploit" animals/the AR cause in order to create a moral pedestal they can stand on. Suddenly, they are elevated to this supremely ethical, saint-like level; and as we know, some vegans don't handle that new position well, often using it to demean humans and other oppressed groups.

Of course we don't know, but I think it's best to err on the side of hope and compassion when dealing with others who are rendered voiceless?

Man, i sound like a freakin optimist. I totally meant that "eerie" last sentence though! One day, we'll be able to communicate with them. Hopefully, they won't organize and strike back at us for all our injustices a la many science fiction movies. But it could happen. Humans will one day be part machine. Any of this shit could happen. AND I'm branching into another discussion entirely now...so I'll shelf that.

You're right about wake up calls being necessary. I mean, I totally think everyone should learn about the realities/watch some of those horrible videos/read that stuff that is uncomfortable. But I also know some people who somehow take it too far...it's hard to explain. It's the way it's presented, i think.

It's true - people can exploit other groups without intentions to create inferiority against the "exploited" but rather to gain levels of superiority for themselves above any they deem "uninformed". So the focus is more on the exploiter rather than the exploited animals... humans are such complex creatures. We can do something seemingly for the greater good and turn around to use that to smack everyone else upside the head for not doing the same while growing the biggest "I'm better than you" complex ever.

Extremism regarding most things are off-putting. But I guess that's part of the job of activist groups - to dish out extremes so that eventually you move consciousness and opinion closer to your own side?

That's why no activist group or political group will ever be 100% perfect or nonpartisan. They have to agitate and polarize to be deemed persuasive and effect change.

Of course it can be done more humanely, compassionately, and tolerantly, but change comes about (seemingly) much slower in that way.

Yes, yes, and yes. Perfection is unattainable when it comes to these things. Just gotta be mindful and make sure that if we're put on an artificial pedestal, we don't abuse that.

On a related note, sometimes, it really helps to delve into the psychology of why so many people remain seemingly oblivious to big things like animal consumption. That's why I recommend Melanie Joy and her carnism.com site and her book/presentations. She goes at it from a much different perspective that I'm used to hearing. It makes a lot of sense.

I think vegans do not intend to make less of the animals, people just want to protect them with their campaigns, i agree that sometimes they're a bit too agressive but think, people only react to those images, think of it as a campaing for cancer or leukemia, only when the person sees an impressive image is when they decide to act, people don't really intend to offend animals, they do it because they think it's the best way, if people were differently, they wouldn't need to "exploit" animals.

Exploitation occurs when someone makes use of some kind of resource in order to obtain benefits. In the case of animal exploitation, the "beneficiary" is a human and the "resource" is a non-human.

The clue to detect whether or not animal exploitation is happening, is to discern who are the beneficiaries and who are the exploited.

So, if the prime objective in using those images is to make people aware of the issue and encourage them in going vegan for the sake of respect, justice and compassion, the beneficiaries are animals themselves and in my view there is no exploitation. Moreover, the resource is not an animal, is a picture of an animal.

One more thing is, when certain organizations uses those images in fundraising campaigns, or engages in activities such as "open rescues" and publicizes videos with a "donate now" message besides the image, the beneficiary is the organization and the resources are pictures of animals or animals themselves. Then, that's when animal exploitation could happen.