Surface Pro (x86) will be $899 for 64 GB and $999 for 128 GB (keyboard not included). Thoughts? (From Sunny, but I can't link because his account is private)

still not a big fan of touchscreen 'laptops'. Let's be honest, that's what this is.

I know absolutely nothing about these things. Way below my give-a-crap threshold.

I love the idea of having a physical keyboard on a tablet, especially in such a thin form factor. I can't type too well on my tablet, even when I tried to write a few papers on there. Just became frustrating after awhile, so I went back to my desktop.

The price, on the other hand, is too high. I had thought it would match the Surface prices ($499 for entry). If I'm spending $899, plus an additional $100 for a keyboard, I'd rather just get a thin laptop.

1. Expensive. Let's be honest: This device is almost exclusively to use Office portably. I haven't seen many games announced for Surface Pro. Other than that, software will be built for Metro (Twitter, IE, etc.). This is more expensive than most netbooks, for a new skin over legacy software. Which leads conveniently into:

2. A half-done OS. Microsoft is trying to skirt the line between tablets and PCs, and it just doesn't work. Touch targets need to be huge for tablets (a little larger than a fingertip), where a PC can get away with smaller targets due to the more precise interface (mouse or trackpad). Using legacy software only exacerbates the problem, because they haven't been made with fingers in mind. It's easier to make a clean break.

3. A battery drain. ARM has been making a resurgence over the last 5-10 years precisely because of how responsible with battery life it is. Intel is only now beginning to look at this problem, which means that battery life is going to suffer.

macbook air for $999:
faster CPU (1.7ghz vs 1.5ghz in Surface pro)
same graphics chip
lower resolution screen (1366 x 768 vs. 1920x1080)
same memory
same hard drive size (Not clear is Surface pro has ssd too)
built-in keyboard & mouse
0.39lbs heavier
.15in thicker at thickest point
.42in thinner at thinnest point
7w/h smaller battery
only forward facing camera (same 720p resolution)

Maybe we can start out by saying what we think we'd use it for. For me, I'd love to have it b/c I could use it to read news, watch videos online, and still have access to some Windows applications without the keyboard. Then instead of having to switch to my desktop, I could just use the keyboard for typing articles, e-mails, or even playing some games on there. Since Surface Pro has the x86 chip, most applications should run on there with no issues. And the keyboard is just a case, so no extra baggage.

But as mentioned a few times already, the price point is too high. One thought I have is if they have the price set high for now to get the early adopters to buy it, and then lower it in the coming months for other interested consumers.

That's not really what microsoft's things. They set the price, and it's that way until the replacement comes out.

I think you're thinking of Apple. Microsoft hardware does get their prices reduced. Software, not so much. Although now they are trying to follow the Apple model by having cheap yearly Windows updates.

I can't actually think of many examples of Microsoft Hardware other than the Xbox, which is sold at a loss.

Sunny: A bluetooth keyboard is $30-100. Why not just use a proper tablet and that? I honestly think that most applications have already been ported, and Office is the only reason for this to exist (and if that's the argument, check theverge.com).

Adam: Portability. Plus those don't come with a touchpad. I have a case on my tablet that opens up the screen and can be put behind the back. I would love for this same case to be a full keyboard on the backside. Granted, it doesn't HAVE to be a Windows machine. I'd be OK with this tech being on the iPad or an Android tablet. But I also like the fact that anything I have installed on my desktop, I can install it on my tablet. For example, audio/video codecs.

Honestly, it's really going to depend on how each person uses their tech because I use it differently than you and Jake, and same with you two. And I had planned on discussing that too, because I don't know if they have a target audience for the Surface yet.

why would you need a touchpad if it's a touchscreen?

i use my macbook for writing. not much you can do with a touch screen. certainly wouldn't want a flimsy key-cloth on my lap.

For gaming, photoshop editing on the go, and other things that a finger just isn't accurate enough for (no matter how skinny my fingers are).

Also, there are two versions of the keyboard, one made of cloth and another that is plastic and clicky.

Jacob, sometimes a touch screen just isn't accurate enough. I can't even use a trackpad most of the time, especially when doing things that require extremely accurate and precise movements like Photoshop.

I totally understand why a touchpad/mouse would be preferable to a touchscreen.

If you need that precision, why would you buy a touchscreen device? So you can use photoshop in the airport?

Jake, I think you're misunderstanding the point of the Surface. It's to be able to have the best of both worlds, not just one. That's what Microsoft is trying to go for, not to mention many people already know how to use Windows so the learning curve is lower (although Windows 8 is fairly different, it's still Windows). You can use it with the touchscreen whenever you don't need the precision, and you can use the touchpad/mouse when you do need it.

As for places, sometimes it is nice to be able to do things more accurately when you're not at home, such as a relatives place. Or maybe you have a side business for editing photos. You can save it on Dropbox and be able to edit it using Photoshop on either your PC or the Surface.

The problem is that it isn't the best of both worlds. It's got a limited battery life and costs much more than a comparably spec'ed laptop. The only advantage is that it has a touchscreen. What we really need is something like the Yoga 13, but better executed.

I was only talking about the touchscreen and keyboard/touchpad integration. I agree with you on the price and battery life being low (my first post). I just like the direction that tablets are headed, as an all-in-one device rather than using a tablet for a few things and a laptop for something else. Still a work in progress, for sure. And I think the next few years will determine what will happen to future tablets.

You're right. The modern tablet (iPad) has only been around for two and a half years and it's still very much in it's infancy. I think if Microsoft keeps plugging away at the Surface, then maybe in three or four iterations it will have become a compelling product. Just look at how fast the tablet has moved forward in the past two years, imagine where it could be two years from now.

I don't personally care about the Surface, but I could see AD integration being a selling point. In a conversation yesterday someone pointed out that this is exactly why their employer was looking at Surfaces.

That doesn't really answer the question of why you'd get a Pro over a Windows laptop, but it does at least offer a somewhat compelling argument for the Surface over the iPad in a corporate environment.

This is an interesting article about Microsoft's future. Be sure to go through the slides, as some of them talk about the Surface and the future of Windows 8. Remember this is just an analysis/opinion from one journalist.

businessinsider.com

Some of those things have definitely come to pass, but I still think it's way too early to say Windows 8 and the Surface RT were not a success. Again, I think it might take a few more years before we finally see the tablet market settle down into a more stable place.

In that time, Microsoft could gain plenty of market share back. (I don't know if they will, but the could).