Sure, there's some subjectivity here, but there are also matters of taste upon which most of us will agree. Triple the salt on that steak, for example, and we will find consensus on its being too salty, at least in every culture whose food I've eaten.

So let's ask: Will we find consensus, here and now, on grape juice having too strong a flavor?

If not, a mostly-earnest followup question: Given its popularity among children, does Big Fruit Juice have a responsibility to dilute it to some minimal extent, the way Pepsi developed a different shape for salt in order to reduce the sodium content of Lay's?

I can't even remember the last time I tried some Grape Juice. I usually go more for the Apple juice these days (p.s. Martinelli's is the best, we had an internal branch about that just last week!).

I do recall it being very sweet, but it probably also varies by who makes it. I bet you could find some fancy organic grape juice at Whole Foods or something that isn't as bad as the usual Welches stuff.

Also, that salt article is awesome.

Martinelli's is just terrific stuff. I guess what I need to find out is, who's the Martinelli's of grape juice? (UPDATE: It's almost also Martinelli's; see below.)

We think alike: The grape juice that prompted the thought was from Whole Foods. But I think I got the stuff that's trying to be the organic answer Welch's. I need to track down some grape juice for grownups.

Glad you liked the salt story. A client at Heinz directed me to it, making the point that long-standing food brands really can't change the experience of their core products too much, unlike in other industries. (Naturally, he mentioned the iPhone, but also footwear, I think.)

In other words, I guess we'll never see Welch's in "Original Sickly" and "Adult Mild" variants.

With fruit-based food in this country, consumers prize "completeness" above all else. We want to know that what we're eating is 100% the thing they say it is. We abhor filler. It's less about the experience and more about the ingredients. Think about Odwalla/Naked-style smoothies; the ingredients are listed as 2 bananas, 1/2 mango, 4 apples, etc.

If, for example, Welch's grape juice was 65% juice and 35% water, I'd assume the consumer reaction would be either "I'm not paying for water, I'm paying for fruit juice" or "I'll decide just how much I want to water down my fruit juice" or likely, both.

A fine point, and one that certainly support's Welch's marketing strategy in our lifetimes. What if it were pitched as a low-sugar version (without artificial sweeteners)?

I'm thinking of Lay's again, this time for their low-sodium chips—which are delicious, but milder. You don't have the same "100%" hurdle with potato chips that you do with juice, but maybe the health angle could work.

Another halfway-similar situation: taking flavored milk out of schools. Seems like a great idea to which the kids will eventually adjust, though I think the verdict is still out.

I'd like to see an ad campaign whose central conceit is "Let's be honest; grape juice is too damn sweet. Introducing Welch's Half-Sweet Concord Grape Juice. All the fruit, half the sugar."

Remember C2 from the mid-Aughts? Half Coke Classic, half Diet Coke? It's too bad they shuttered it before introducing Coke Zero, because a half-calorie soda that was half-Coke, half-Zero would've been a much more successful product.

#toodamnsweet would blow up, I feel sure.

I thought that Grape juice would be almost the same everywhere in the world, but looks like I was wrong. You're drinking juice with a lot added sugar? That's seems not logic to me. Juice should be natural..

Last time I have drunken Grape juice was in Italy, a few years ago and it tasted sour, but I quickly got used to that and started to like it. Wouldn't that work in the US too?

Tomorrow I'll go search for a shop that has grape juice, and drink it. Wondering how much sugar it has here in the Netherlands and how sour it is.

Didn't mean to mislead, Raimond; our stateside grape juice has no added sugar. It's just naturally very sweet and with high fructose. It is also slightly tart, as you described your experience.

Ah, right. Thanks for the explanation. Now I get it :)

I just tried two flavors of grape juice I found in a shop tomorrow. I think you're al meaning the 'red' one. I stay with my experience before, nice but tart. The white one tasted less tart and 'fruitier' so I think it's tastier. They both are really sweet indeed and have much fructose as said before.

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Grapes naturally have one of the highest concentration of fructose anyway, the same product will always vary from country to country due to their regulations and standards, it is said that Americans like their sweet extra sweet and of course if it comes out of a factory it is not natural. Juice is made from concentrate and has added sugar plus salt, like you said. You are better off buying a juicer, blender, throw some grapes an have it fresh. Berries are the fruits with the lowest sugar

Raimond, quite right. The default, in the U.S., is definitely red grape juice, typically from Concord grapes. In fact, we call that one "grape juice" and the other one "white grape juice."

Simona, the archetypal red grape juice in the U.S., Welch's, has no added sugar—just juice concentrate and water. I guess my initial question amounts to, could they add a little more water? (I could do it myself, of course.)

They could if enough percentage of consumers would ask for it. It's always about statistics.

I think less sweet juices could be poplar. There's already some people having success with semi-sweet drinks. Gatorate has G2, which is regular Gatorate cut in half with water. Arizona makes some drinks that are about half as sweet as their standard iced teas. Coconut water's a big hit too, and it's usually low sweetness.

Didn't realize that's all G2 is. Makes perfect sense, and of course, next time I'm in the mood for Gatorade, I'll surely give it a try. As for coconut water, I'm a big, longtime fan. Great flavor, but a subtle one.