My proposal is to pay teachers more but hold them to higher standards. I understand that different communities have different challenges and need to have different ways to evaluate how much progress teachers are making, but you have to have some way to attract the best teachers and be able to get rid of the ones who aren't helping.

I think tenure needs to end. It's destructive. You have teachers who are coasting at a certain point, there's no motivation there for them to continue to improve and in some cases they're going in reverse. There needs to be accountability but there also needs to be a big bonus for teachers who are making an impact.

I see great charter schools making tremendous progress, like TEAM in Newark. This can be done.

I once heard Jonathan Kozol suggest that we rebut the argument that throwing money at education doesn't work by saying, "Works for your kids."

If we're talking about the CTU strike, I'm with the striking teachers.

I've taught in schools in New York City and Connecticut but nowhere near enough to presume to have a better handle on what's wrong with the education system than anyone else.

I do think it's important for there to be books in the classroom and in the school library. It's easier to keep everybody focused when everybody's had enough to eat. Best of all is when the parents have the time to pay attention.

As for charters, I've worked long enough in a corporate setting to recognize that accountability sounds a lot like a buzzword.

I just completed my college degree at a "traditional" college, so I've had a decent amount of schooling in my life. I've found that college has actually been worse than high school with teachers staying around longer then they should. I've had professors that had been teaching at the college for 30+ years, and hadn't changed their methods very much at all. That's unacceptable to me, and people need to be held responsible. Keep in mind that I've had to take these professors more multiple classes throughout my degree. I think this plagues a lot of universities in the United States, and I don't believe money would fix this. Now more than ever we need teachers to adapt their teaching to fit students and their respective industries alike.

I've had good and bad teachers from elementary through college, both new to the profession and old hats. The best teachers I've had have all been in the mid-range though. There are a few problems which I think plague education at every level and definitely need to be addressed.

Class size, lack of resources, inequal opportunity, and seniority.

I think if we focused on getting class sizes down to more manageable levels, getting schools and teachers the resources they need, getting everyone an equal chance at a quality education, and dealing with the problems presented by seniority, we'd be well on the way to bettering the education system.

I've been trying to figure this one out for a while but haven't come to one conclusion except that it's impossible.

I feel like the biggest problem with the school system is the structure of it. It's impossible to structure an entire class based on an average. Those who are smarter will always become bored with the slowness of knowledge and those who are weak will always have little motivation because they can't be like the "smart kids" (this is all generally speaking).

Changing the system isn't changing the teachers, it's somehow grouping students in the most common way so that they can grow at their own pace, whether it takes 22 years or 10 years.

The only problem with this is then people will be upset because of IQ segregation.

Most of the debate so far seem to be aimed at improving our k-12 school system, but my teaching experience comes from the adult end of the spectrum. The problem facing adults is that if your underemployed and have a family it is difficult to find the resources to go back to college, especially when they feel there is no guarentee of better employment. What I think we need is a profit-sharing scheme, where instead of giving out loans, a bank pays for your education expenses and even some living requirements in exchange for a percentage of future profits. this dramatically lowers the barrier to entry and mitigates risk: if you are not successful, the bank's profit share is tiny or nothing, and can never put you in debt.

Banks would love it too, since ROI in excess to 2% would not be hard to achieve, and the very successful would effectively subsidize the rest.

I agree with Spencer, fixing education is impossible. But making significant improvements is very possible.

With only one exception, almost every systemic educational problem can be traced back to a centralized power structure. And the solutions involve decentralizing and putting more power/freedom in the hands of good teachers.
- Curriculum is dictated by small educational boards in a few states that purchase the majority of textbooks
- Administrators take an oversize piece of the compensation pie
- Amateur school boards make decisions based on their tax burden instead of educational value
- Unions negotiate policies that cater to underperforming teachers

The one exception of course are the parents.

@Spencer Hamm
Some schools are working on pilot programs where they use lessons from places like the Khan Academy, allowing students to learn at their own pace in the same classroom. Some of them are having students do the video lessons at home and then do their homework in the classroom where their teachers are present to give 1-on-1 attention when they need it most. But all of this hinges on the teachers being given the freedom to explore new methods.
old.post-gazette.com

@Max Corbin
Since the banks would not have a vested interest in the success of the individuals, only in their ability to repay the investment, I don't see that working out well. And it would still be a debt. But along those lines, Pres. Clinton has some good suggestions on adult education in his book "Back to Work". He takes a slightly different approach in that instead of involving banks you set up a program that pays unemployment benefits to a company, which in turn trains the unemployed person and compensates them during their training. So the unemployed get new jobs and the companies aren't footing the bill for retraining.

#10 on list: thedailybeast.com

NYC Mayor Bloomberg has also advocated for similar plans: nyc.gov

Here's how to fix education: reinstate Glass-Steagall, restrict bankers' bonuses, regulate hedge funds and reduce the amount of time people who know nothing about the subject have to spend making mischief around it.

No offense, guys, but nothing I see in the discussion so far leads me to believe education reform is anything other than union busting in disguise.

@Nate Tharp
Man that's so awesome. That's a change that I'd like to see be more widespread. I love that it breaks the normal routine of everyday school and allows for enough change to make it interesting again!

First, let's centralize funding for schools across the board, so every school is funded the same amount per student. Our schools still vary drastically by neighborhood — even 50+ years after Brown v. Board.

Next, let's decentralize administration, to make schools more flexible. Curriculum could change more rapidly to reflect industry needs.

I'd suggest more of a focus on the practical and applicable, too (rather than what is bubble-testable), but now I'm just getting ambitious.

Nobody cares more about my children's education than me and my wife. Many of us agree that more accountability is needed. Our current incentive structures have failed us.

I think the notion of "test scores" has been overplayed. At the end of the day, it is the parents who are responsible to judge the adequacy of their children's education. Parents need to control the purse directly. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

Personally, I blame parents for the decline of our education system. I think the only road to recovery is for them to take back the responsibility entirely.

@Karl Fundenberger
Finland is a shining example of what happens when you remove competing interests from schooling.

I think the centralization of funding would be as tough as really improving parent involvement. But the benefits of either or both would be significant.

I'm hopeful that what is going on with Khan Academy, TED-Ed and Apple's iTunes U will help release the stranglehold states like Texas have on curriculum. And put more control in the hands of individual schools and their capable educators.
nytimes.com

@Larsenal
Parents are a huge part of the problem, but they can't solve it on their own. We should all care more about it. Your kids could be my employee, doctor, financial advisor, plumber or employer. Their education is and should be important to all of us.

For that reason I don't want parents controlling the education of my children any more than I want them controlling the education of their own children. Teachers are professionals and should be respected as such. Part of that means taking power away from parents on school boards and school administrators to put it in the hands of the professionals. That's a big part of where Finland's succes lies.

My initial thoughts are that the Educational system's problem is that it's a system. It's rigid. It has guidelines that are tied to statistics. That doesn't make sense.

My favorite example of this are people like Einstein who did terrible in the educational system but now, his work has become some of the most prolific subject matter in our current educational system.

I agree that test scores and national averages are not helpful. Education isn't just about how you read, write, and do arithmetic. I view education as how each one grows and becomes proficient at what they are best suited for.

Is it realistic to be able to tailor lesson plans, curriculum or standards to each child? I don't think so…on a national scale. It happens internally.

As far as parents go I would say that they do need to be much more proactive in being part of their children's education. That goes much further than dropping them off, picking them up, and seeing the occasional after school performance or attending Back To School night.

When I said, "It happens internally", up above this is part of what I'm talking about. I work for a private elementary in an affluent area and these parents spend a ton of time at the school.

If anyone expects any outside organization to just make things better for them, they're going to be disappointed at some point in time.

I'm not betting on national reform, but I am doing my best to make the school I work for some where I would send my children if I had my own.

I think the question of how we can fix the education system is far deeper than just schools, teachers, systems, parents. It, as many things tend to do, starts at the top.

We have elected officials at every level of government actively undermining progress in the name of self, and special, interests. These people are supposed to lead the change, and yet, they fail to make any changes.

But, we, as the citizens of a democratic republic, are perhaps even more to blame -- we continue to put these people in office.

So it's my mind that, before we run around looking to put the blame for (as well as the onus to fix) the problem on others, we should think about fixing ourselves, being accountable for ourselves, and ultimately, changing ourselves.

We must recognize that parents have a significant role to play. As parents are we spending enough time with kids to discuss possible choices?, Are we in a position to participate and engage in teaching them? if not, there are plenty of tutoring options available, many online. There is also room for improvements in the kind of books available outside of school. I saw a story book for 4-5 year old which talks about falling in love with a price etc... would it not be better if this book could make education fun, curious. Lastly, the tenure system has to end, and we need a CRM/EMR like system to help track improvement, failure and trends Y-o-Y and in the process hold the teachers and parents accountable and above all make students successful.

More of a British perspective. My experience - being a student once upon a time and more recently having completed a teaching qualification (yet to be a "teacher" as a profession though)

A few ideas strike me:

1. Teachers themselves need to improve. They need to embrace new methods and vary their teaching styles and aids. Standing at a board dictating doesn't work.
2. Parents need to take an active involvement. Palming off responsibility for their kids education to the state is too easy.
3. More sport and competition in schools. The idea that everyone is a winner leads to problems down the road. More sport in itself should help with fitness and weight problems that are becoming the norm.

Some really great thoughts here.

I can't comment on being a parent because I'm not one, and don't plan on having kids for a while. But I agree that it should be on the parents to have a more active role in their child's life, but I can look around and see parents that never seem to care much about have kids as some sort of pet, and then just letting them run wild. So before we fix the school system, we have to fix the parents to teach their kids right.

I also have to play the devils advocate on one point. I agree that tests are way over hyped and many times unnecessary. BUT. Because we have always grown up and everything has to have some kind of statistic attached it, that is exactly what tests do.

I agree with Joe Amonetti that too much emphasize is put on others, and there's not emphasis put on each one having a responsibility to, they themselves change how they think about what school is and what is expected from school.

Structure is very important but if it's a structure that aims to please everyone then it's going to fail. I think that's what we're seeing now. It's supposed to be "fair". It's not. It's extremely confining, limiting, and inconsiderate of how unique every person is.

I think each person should find out how education effects them personally and look into what it takes to in turn effect education back. It's hard, but the really important things are rarely easy to accomplish.

Spencer, that is a true statement about test scores but is that the best way to evaluate someone's abilities to the fullest? I don't think so. I think it tells us who's better at taking tests.

Trevor, I agree, there should be a better way. I've always wanted to see some way to have test be one of the options to evaluate the knowledge of someone, and have other things, such as creative projects (or something, idk what the other options would be).

It seems to me that often times the creative person that has a very non analytical brain always gets "punished" because they're inability to take a test, when in reality they just can't regurgitate the information in the way others can. It would be cool to see some kind of system that classifies people based on there learning style, then placed them accordingly, like on a much broader scale than just those requiring special education needs, when in reality everyone has these needs.

@Anthony I believe in giving teachers more pay and holding them to higher standards, but let’s also make sure that we are giving our teachers, a center piece of society, the proper tools to facilitate education. In my mind, these tools consist of providing the additional time and energy for adequate professional development.

I am a firm believer that most blended learning models help facilitate the learning process in many ways, which includes allowing the teacher more time to cater to the unique developments of individuals and become more balanced in general.

There is much more to add to this thread, however the last thing I will propose is this: We need to ‘balance’ education rather than ‘fix’ it.

Trevor and Spencer, I wonder if any school has implemented a system where the parents, students and teachers all assess each other. An interesting experiment indeed.

The teachers I've talked to in low-performing schools say one oft-overlooked problem is inattention to detail.

Teachers don't have enough textbooks for their students despite school districts having a supply of unused books at another location; bathrooms are often broken/closed for hours at a time and administrators and teachers planning ahead is too uncommon.

There are enormous structural issues in education like teacher accountability and school funding. Unfortunately they will take years to fix.

A first, achievable step would be to start taking care of these details in operations, administration and teaching to show students adults care about their performance.

Anyone else have stories of details affecting education?

@Teddy McWilliams
Many schools provide email addresses and phone #s to parents who are then constantly assessing the teachers, albeit in a much less formal manner than what you're suggesting. It would be a big shock to a lot of parents if they were actually assessed by the teachers. Although I suspect most teachers would be fearful of being honest. Would be interesting to try though.

@Colin
I know of teachers in "less-fortunate" schools in Boston that have children wearing coats in class because of no heat. Parts of the school being temporarily condemned because of mold. Can't expect much out of students in that environment.

I think we all agree that parents need to be a big part of the solution. But what about parents that are realistically unable to play a large role in the education of their children? Single parents working multiple jobs, parents working the night shift, parents with disabilities, children being raised by a grandparent, etc. Do we just isolate those children so they don't "contaminate" the rest of the student population or can we improve the learning environment enough to overcome those obstacles?

An article on TechCrunch this morning asserts that the fact that the U.S. lags behind other developed nations in education has never mattered because "what students learn in school does not translate into later life success." It goes on to assert the real innovation only comes from the top tier of students, and our ability to attract talented, motivated immigrants.

Does this mean we should focus more of our attention and education dollars on the top 25% of students? Or should we try to make our education curriculum more applicable to real life situations? Personally I've never understood why every high school doesn't make a basic personal finance class a requirement.

techcrunch.com

Nate, I can't remember what show it was (I think Numbers haha), but the basics of this episode was that a company was building a machine that could track where "hotspots" were for knowledge growth rates all over the nation. The bad guy killed several people that created the machine in hopes that it wouldn't ever become reality, because he came from a neighborhood that would have gotten passed up by the machine.

I know it's just a show, but it raises a really good point. Regardless of the person or the area, there will always be anomalies that come from these places, so if we focus on the top 25%, which could potentially be a very stable increase, we risk losing the option of not helping those that go on to do great things.

I was hoping this conversation would be a bit more progressive.

All of the problems we have currently are related directly to our socialized government run system. There appears to be no mention of that here accept the one person mentioning Khan Academy. Which isn't a direct comment on socialized education but is a private sector solution that our public system could never hope to achieve.

There is no incentive for the education establishment to excel. We need to bring in competitive market forces or we will never have the high quality education that we need.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between government funding education and government providing education services. If we can decouple the two so that we are providing equal dollars for every student, but those dollars can go only into the free market. We would see a massive private sector push to improve education and provide the best products possible.

This is why we have iphones and the public school system is still complaining about not having enough books.

It has long baffled me, that as a country, we understand that capitalism delivers progress and lower costs for higher value products, but we continue to have blinders on for socialized education.

The American public school system is essentially a communist endeavor which is clearly failing the same way that every other communist country has failed.

It is dying under the weight of its own bureaucracy and the sense of entitlement of its workers.

@Trevor Green
I agree that the incentive structure needs to change. Decoupling the funding is exactly what's needed to fix the incentive structure. Responsible parents directing funds is the most appropriate way to achieve this.

@Teddy McWilliams
The Atlantic has an article on the virtues of students grading their teachers. It talks about how students are most qualified to rate teachers, and how student surveys can be better indicators of learning than standardized tests. It also addressed my biggest reservation about the idea, having young children evaluating their teachers.

theatlantic.com

@Trevor Green
As the individual that has mentioned the Khan Academy, I have one question for you. Do you have any successful examples of privatized educational systems?

At the university level I've seen nothing to suggest that private institutions are any more efficient or provide greater outcomes than public institutions.

If you'll indulge me I have one other question. How would you suggest we align the financial interests of these "competitive market forces" with the educational goals of our society? An iPhone has a very obvious model. A child's education, not so much.

Okay, one last question. How can you discount the numerous other nations with socialized educational models that are more successful than ours?

@Nate Tharp
The parents determine the goals of a child's education. As a group, their goals represent the goals of society effectively. It's not perfect because you have imperfect (and sometimes downright bad) parents. But it's still the best option.

@Larsenal
I think I understand what you're suggesting. But my question is from a practical standpoint, how do you get Acme Education, Inc. to care about the educational goals you/society have for your child?

Because if I'm running a for-profit junior high my goals are maximum $ while providing minimal education. I have to go to some extra lengths to give you the impression that your child is getting a world-class education but that still doesn't change my goals.

@Nate Tharp
I as a parent need discernment. If your school's goal is primarily to maximize profit, it's my responsibility to discern that. I understand that a school needs to make money, but the profit incentive needs to be in balance. The ONLY way you're going to get my tuition is to convince me that you actually can provide an excellent education. You have to convince me that the teachers care. If they care for my children, I will care for them by paying tuition.

I don't go to Acme Education Inc. and tell them what to do; I just select the school that best meets the needs of my children.

@Nate Tharp
Do you have any successful examples of privatized educational systems?

No because I don't study this extensively. My theory is that you can't measure the success of something that doesn't exist.

Universities are not a great example because even private universities are anti-free market authoritarian systems. The concept of a "degree" is designed so that they lock you in an effectively don't have to compete an a granular level with other institutions. This is in evidence that you have to apply to get into schools with a perceived quality. We need a market with an abundance of quality product that drives the cost down to a manageable level.

@Nate Tharp

"If you'll indulge me I have one other question. How would you suggest we align the financial interests of these "competitive market forces" with the educational goals of our society? An iPhone has a very obvious model. A child's education, not so much."

What are these "educational goals"? Whatever they are they are not being met currently. The way that we provide maximum educational value to our children is to provide them with the ability to consume 1000% percent more than they can in our limited system. This can be accomplished with the proper application of technology.

@Nate Tharp

Okay, one last question. How can you discount the numerous other nations with socialized educational models that are more successful than ours?

I do not. This is a cultural difference, not necessarily one of systems. With the proper will and limited technology you can build a pyramid. Americans are not building pyramids, we require the application of more technology to succeed. And in the absence of that technology we at least need more competitive incentive. Which we don't encourage in our public school system.

Bring back concepts like grading on a curve or other things that create pressure on students to succeed and differentiate themselves and you could possibly mimic success with public education.

Step back for a moment and imagine what a truly free market education system would look like. Focus on institutional lock in. If you can buy a program on the subject or class level from any vendor, not from an institution. Then you can pick the best of everything and put together a far more optimal education. Those smaller choice that you make will force competition and product quality would then improve dramatically across the board.

This is how technology advances. Each provide must continual up their game and check off features in order to improve their product and keep and grow their market share.

With technology we no longer have to accept that a student goes to a school for the limited amount that school can provide. Our children can go to every school through a computer, they can get the best materials and the most optimal questions regardless of where they are sitting.

We just need to unleash the incentive by allowing the capital to flow into the free market.

So as a child ingests micro transactions of content the provides of that content get micro payments. So the best videos and the best questions, the best education is at our fingertips and funded.

@Trevor Green
Technology + Free Markets = Yay!
You've gott love this piece from TechCrunch about the site TeachersPayTeachers, right?

Teachers Pay Teachers sounds like a nice site. Not something that will fix all problems but at least it is a start where Teachers that produce education materials can participate in the free market. That doesn't help Teachers that don't produce make a living. And it doesn't remove the administrative controls over what materials are used.

You might argue the system isn't socialized/socialist enough if it's full of workers only looking out for their pay packet Trevor. Those people clearly miss the point of why they are there.

In any event I'm not sure it's true. I'd imagine most people involved in education have the right reasons for being there.

Personally the whole way education is set up seems farcical. Set classes and curricula supposedly setting young people up for a place in the world 10 or 15 years hence? We can't even predict how the world will be in 1 year.

Personally I have a lot of time for John Holt and his theories. And I also spent the latter third of my education in a Steiner/Waldorf school as opposed to a state run school in the UK and it was far superior