As many have heard, the day after Obama was elected, Louisiana started a petition to withdraw from the union and become their own country. Just this past day or two, 18 other states have followed in their footsteps in an effort to become their own separate countries.
Most states are now well-over 1,000 signatures in just one day. Texas has actually passed 10,000...
At the rate this is going, I can see plenty of states reaching the signatures needed. (25,000)
Thoughts? Comments? Questions?
I'm not really sure about what these petitions actually mean. What happens when 25k people signed it? Will a referendum/poll be held? Does a parliament has to vote about it? And for both the previous questions: on state or nation level?
A state leaving the nation would be an interesting thing to follow as we're in Europe doing the exact opposite, working to transform the European Union in a nation/country (most politicians will deny this, but it's inevitable thanks to the Euro- and debtcrisis).
I'm not entirely sure what the government would do in a case like this. Obviously though, when you create a petition and reach the number of signatures needed before the end date, the petition goes to the appropriate group in the government. They would then respond with the appropriate response.
So, with that being said, I'm really completely clueless as to what would happen if, or when, these states reach the goal. This is probably a big reason why I've been following this so closely; just for the simple fact that i have no idea what could happen.
Is a civil war on the horizon?
Interesting, I do know that in some States their constitution lists the possibility to withdraw from the nation/union/country (which one should I use?). So it can happen.
I don't think there will be a civil war, partly because states probably can withdraw peacefully and secondly because I don't think that there are enough people crazy enough to start a civil war. At the most some extra work for your police services.
That's true. You can use all three when you're referencing all three, they all make sense in this case.
You're also right about the civil war. It could happen, just not likely I guess.
That's something that's been blowing my mind, too. How will law enforcement operate? How would a lot of things operate? We would need a passport just to go to a different state?
I think it will look al lot like the agreements between countries in Europe: the so-called "Schengen-Zone" where you can travel with just an ID card. So for example when I go the Germany (I live at the Dutch side of the border) then I can just use my ID card to identify myself, when I want to go to the US I need to take my passport with me, ask for a visa (before) and use that to identify myself.
And I guess that there will be free trade agreements between the new formed countries and the US.
In 2014, Scotland goes to the polls to decide whether Scotland will become an independent country. You can think of Scotland as a state, much like Louisiana.
The argument on this side of the pond is over things like Military, Currency and Resources. The Scottish government insists we will have our own Military, and will not be forced to use the Euro, but instead use the Sterling Pound.
Resources however, we have large Oil deposits, much like the US, many people believe we will have to sell these to keep our economy together. If US states decide to break off, their economy will be smaller than the US so the question is can they support their smaller selfs?
You are all taking these petitions too seriously.
First, the petitions are submitted by individuals, not state governments, so it is misleading to say "Louisiana started a petition" when really it is Michael Slidell, resident of Louisiana, who posted the petition on the White House website.
Second, if the petition reaches 25,000 signatures in 30 days, the White House is required to give an official response. That's it. The petitions carry no force of law, and in fact the official White House response is sometimes "we can't respond to that" if, for example, the petition covers an ongoing legal proceeding.
The political climate is awful, but we are nowhere near taking secession seriously. This is just Republicans, venting frustration.
Haven't checked which states are involved, but if it involves the usual suspects, most of them receive more from the federal government than they pay out (Louisiana does). So I'm fine with that. :) That said, many said the same thing in 2008, including the governor of Texas, so it's not just individual citizens, but is mostly blowing a lot of hot air and to get on the news.
A couple of links on the tax issue:
motherjones.com
I particularly like when people use the Declaration of Independence as justification for secession. While the sentiments are certainly there, it has not actual legal foundation. And any reasonable reading of the actual election would indicate that this government is still deriving its powers from the consent of the governed.
Benjamin Ragheb said exactly what I was going to say, and more, so I no longer have anything to contribute to this conversation :P
Except one thing: even if this was serious, it's not practical. Mississippi can't survive on its own, or will at least endure many years of very hard times and high debt before stabilizing.
Oh and one more: they make these sound as threats. As in, "We're not satisfied with Federal Government so we're going to secede to show you!" That's hilarious because, as Steven linked above, as far as Federal Government is concerned, no Mississippi or Alabama = smaller deficit! Not sure what's so threatening about that.
This will quiet down soon.
This is totally the child-like reaction of people who don't really understand democracy. This is the politic version of taking the ball home with you because you lost a match.
Thanks for your feedback! Team Branch
